diff --git a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWinX11.cpp b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWinX11.cpp
index f7684dab5..1bcb4651c 100644
--- a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWinX11.cpp
+++ b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWinX11.cpp
@@ -173,7 +173,7 @@ void TopWindow::SyncCaption0()
 
 void TopWindow::CenterRect(Ctrl *owner)
 {
-	GuiLock __; 
+	GuiLock __;
 	SetupRect();
 	if(owner && center == 1 || center == 2) {
 		Size sz = GetRect().Size();
@@ -213,6 +213,7 @@ void TopWindow::Open(Ctrl *owner)
 	UsrLogT(3, "OPEN " + Desc(this));
 	LLOG("OPEN " << Name() << " owner: " << UPP::Name(owner));
 	IgnoreMouseUp();
+	bool weplace = owner && center == 1 || center == 2 || !GetRect().IsEmpty();
 	if(fullscreen)
 		SetRect(0, 0, Xwidth, Xheight);
 	else
@@ -221,8 +222,10 @@ void TopWindow::Open(Ctrl *owner)
 	Create(owner, false, false);
 	xminsize.cx = xmaxsize.cx = Null;
 	title2.Clear();
-	LLOG("SyncCaption");
-	SyncCaption();
+	if(!weplace) {
+		LLOG("SyncCaption");
+		SyncCaption0();
+	}
 	LLOG("SyncSizeHints");
 	size_hints->flags = 0;
 	SyncSizeHints();
@@ -261,6 +264,14 @@ void TopWindow::Open(Ctrl *owner)
 		LLOG("SetWndFocus");
 		SetWndFocus();
 		for(int i = 0; i < 50; i++) {
+			// X11 tries to move our window, so ignore the first set of ConfigureNotify
+			// and move the window into position after FocusIn - but not if we want WM to
+			// place the window
+			if(weplace)
+				while(XCheckTypedWindowEvent(Xdisplay, top->window, ConfigureNotify, &e)) {
+					if(e.xconfigure.window != top->window)
+						ProcessEvent(&e);
+				}	
 			if(XCheckTypedWindowEvent(Xdisplay, top->window, FocusIn, &e)) {
 				ProcessEvent(&e);
 				if(e.xfocus.window == top->window)
@@ -269,6 +280,11 @@ void TopWindow::Open(Ctrl *owner)
 			Sleep(10);
 		}
 	}
+	if(weplace) {
+		WndSetPos0(GetRect());
+		LLOG("SyncCaption");
+		SyncCaption0();
+	}
 	LLOG(">Open NextRequest " << NextRequest(Xdisplay));
 	LLOG(">OPENED " << Name());
 	PlaceFocus();
diff --git a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWindow.cpp b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWindow.cpp
index 52d248a44..6017732d7 100644
--- a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWindow.cpp
+++ b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/TopWindow.cpp
@@ -314,6 +314,7 @@ int  TopWindow::Run(bool appmodal)
 #endif
 	EventLoop(this);
 #ifdef _DEBUG
+DLOG("b " << GetRect());
 	LLOG("Finished EventLoop in " << UPP::Name(this));
 	for(int e = 0; e < disabled.GetCount(); e++)
 		LLOG("EnableCtrls[" << e << "] = " << UPP::Name(disabled[e]));
diff --git a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11App.cpp b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11App.cpp
index aab5fc72b..249ae626a 100644
--- a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11App.cpp
+++ b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11App.cpp
@@ -447,7 +447,7 @@ void Ctrl::ExitX11()
 Rect Ctrl::GetDefaultWindowRect()
 {
 	GuiLock __; 
-	static int pos = 0;
+	static int pos = min(Xwidth / 10, 50);
 	pos += 10;
 	int cx = Xwidth * 2 / 3;
 	int cy = Xheight * 2 / 3;
diff --git a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11Wnd.cpp b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11Wnd.cpp
index 670826437..8d02f5879 100644
--- a/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11Wnd.cpp
+++ b/uppsrc/CtrlCore/X11Wnd.cpp
@@ -12,7 +12,7 @@ NAMESPACE_UPP
 
 
 bool Ctrl::LogMessages
-// = true
+ = true
 ;
 #endif
 
@@ -493,28 +493,6 @@ void Ctrl::Create0(Ctrl *owner, bool redirect, bool savebits)
 	cw.xic = NULL;
 	
 	if(xim) {
-/*		char          **missing_list;
-		int           missing_count;
-		char          *def_string;
-	
-		static XFontSet dummy_fs = XCreateFontSet(Xdisplay, "-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-",
-		                                          &missing_list, &missing_count, &def_string);
-		DDUMP((void *)dummy_fs);
-
-		XPoint          spot;
-		spot.x = 1;
-		spot.y = 1;
-		XVaNestedList   preedit_attr = XVaCreateNestedList(0, XNSpotLocation, &spot, XNFontSet, dummy_fs, NULL);
-		
-		DDUMP((void *)preedit_attr);
-	
-		cw.xic = XCreateIC(xim,
-		                   XNInputStyle, XIMPreeditPosition|XIMStatusNothing,
-		                   XNPreeditAttributes, preedit_attr,
-		                   XNClientWindow, w,
-		                   NULL);
-		XFree(preedit_attr);
-		DDUMP((void *)cw.xic);*/
 		cw.xic = XCreateIC(xim,
 		                   XNInputStyle, XIMPreeditNothing|XIMStatusNothing,
 		                   XNClientWindow, w,